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efrisbee
06-27-2007, 11:35 AM
How much help is passive training? Will it actually improve your team, just keep them from getting worse, or make them get worse slightly slower...?

im going out of town this weekend, 3 or 4 days, is it worth getting an AT or would putting my team on passive training be sufficient?

mlthmp
06-27-2007, 12:04 PM
Depends on who you ask.. lol

Passive has its supporters, and its doubters.. I am one of the latter.

Im not sold on PT right now.. you have to have several games thrown your way to do any good I think.. plus it doesn't do anything for your bench players.

I'd look for an AT, or splurge on a holiday before I relied on PT long term

Railhand
06-27-2007, 12:08 PM
1. Not much
2. NO
3. maybe
4. Yes
5. Yes

The passive training feature won't hurt for that short of time. Of course, if nobody challenges you, it doesn't come into play anyway. If you are a 9* team, they shouldn't lose too much skill in the time you speak. The only advantage in this scenario is it will show "today" if someone were to challenge you to a game. If you are less than 9* it could cause a loss of one star rating. The pitcher is the only player that will receive any negligible training and he will use all his TP in the first game.

philgil
06-27-2007, 12:10 PM
i think its worth getting a AT cuz they can train the team in somethibg specific PT you cant

tthomp
06-27-2007, 02:38 PM
If your team is the Michigam Wolverines, it would be best just to let them die off. LOL J/K
If you put your team PT then you need someone to play your team as Railhand pointed out. You could always make a request for people to play your team over the period you will be gone.

Issued-Away
06-27-2007, 05:47 PM
i think its worth getting a AT cuz they can train the team in somethibg specific PT you cant


Yep. 4 days obviously wouldn't kill your team, so long as you can be assured that the team will be played, but an AT is always the better choice. Actual trainers will always be better than passive training...unless you know exactly how the game will play out before you initiate it; you have no idea what your team will improve on with their TP.

Stars
06-27-2007, 05:49 PM
I dont like it because i like seeing my team get trained

UNC FAN
06-27-2007, 06:20 PM
Yet another dotinfo article:
(http://smallball.info/content/view/139/62/)

Written by Tim
Part 1 – Passive Training, The Biggest Myth of SmallBall



Passive Training, one of the only training methods that everyone is taught to hate from early on in their smallball careers. Mention passive and training in the same sentence and you will usually hear how it is the devil or training methods in the world of SmallBall. Stop reading this right now and go ahead and search passive training in the smallball forums. What you have found is little or no valuable information.



There have been many experiments with passive trained teams in the past but very rarely these are followed through or documented and published to the smallball community. The Commissioner of SmallBall backs and believes that passive training is a dependable source of training. Wether Passive Training is used solely as your main training method, used in your training schedule alongside ST or DT training or used when you don’t have the time to train your team, Passive Training is good for your team. The Commissioner also believes one of the main things beginners need to get their head around is the value of passive training.



In late 2002, a Trainer by the name of Jit asked wether his view and idea of passive training was correct, He thought the since everyone player had his/her own natural position, once you had established what each players position was, wouldn’t it be better train turn on passive training and train via playing games. For instance, take your RF, he/she needs to be trained mostly in throwing catching and running. If you played games, then the player would be trained in those skills and the same would happen to the whole team.



The first reply was from a very respected and talented trainer, and unsurprisingly his advice, which you would trust to be correct was “passive is evil.” Sure this was said lightly and jokingly, but he was advising Jit not to bother with passive training.



This is the exact reason passive training has ever kicked off as a recommended training method, as Commish as said multiple times, Trainers need to understand the true value of passive training. There is no way this can happen when this method is pushed into every new players head as a bad thing.



Taking into account that this post was in 2002, passive training may not have been as effective back in those days, right? Correct! As a matter of fact, in late January 2004 it was announced that Passive Training had been infact made stronger and gave larger gains to your players. I would bet that you could ask a lot of the trainers that were around in January 2004 wether this fact is true or not and they would say they didn’t know or claim it was a lie. This change to smallball was announced in a small thread in the SmallBall forums that a lot of people didn’t read, accept or absorb into their memory. People are still claiming that passive training is as weak as it was in 2002 because they don’t know the facts from 2004.



Fear not, some good did come from Jit’s post, there was some interesting advice, the first was from another very experienced and respected trainer, “the problem with that is that your team also has to go to bat, so lots of TP will be used up with that...and balls aren't always hit to all players so some will ONLY get bat training.” If this happened, which I imagine it would because this is how passive training is said to work, I would view it as a good thing rather than bad. If a player were not getting the ball hit to them, then why would you want them to be good at catching? This is a whole basis of passive training, it’s passive’s best asset, yet the intention of passive training is turned on it as a bad thing.



The view of how passive training works that everyone is taught is that your players gain the correct skill for whatever action they just did, eg. You player catches the ball, so of course he gains catch skill. This could be true, but in Jit’s post commish mentioned the players will train in the skills that they need when they play a games. To me, this hints at providing the answer for how passive training works. In the Deluxe trainer. If you put a player in a training zone such as the catch circle, every time they get a skill gain, a percentage of their TP will be used on throwing and a percentage will be used on Catching. This could work the same with passive training. Instead of looking at every position on the field as simply ‘a position on the field.’ Try looking at ever position as a training zone that works in a similar way to the deluxe trainer. After a minute or two every player has a skill gain just like trainers do and their TP is used up, depending on what ‘zone’ they are training in, players will gain skill in different skill areas that relate to their position.



The last post of Jit’s thread claimed that “In terms of gaining star levels, that kind of training wouldn't be all that successful IMHO. The reason I say that, is for example, a Left Field should be a good runner, thrower, and catcher... so he has good potential to develop those skills.... so he retains them well.... so he would make almost no skill gains whatsoever when you get to a high level, whereas if you trained him in something he was bad at (Power for example) he would make good gains by learning what he had forgotten since you last trained.

Of course in terms of winning games its a very good way to train... but still, at the top level, all the teams are so evenly matched it comes down to positioning rather than skills more often than not, having the skills in the wrong positions is as bad for the team as not having them at all.”



I see this as some very good advice, and I recommend it to anyone but I can add to it I believe. All of SmallBalls ‘top’ teams are infact very evenly matched and you really do have to find any advantage you can, an example is 24 hour training vs 48 hour training. People believe there is a better chance of full +1 or +2 gains rather than +0.01 gains while training with a 48-hour routine. When training in ST or DT, teams don’t gain Training Potential. Lets say, averaged out through a year, you spend 30 mins in the Deluxe Trainer per day, If you add together all the TP you miss out on, it adds up to around eight days worth of TP. That’s 8 days of training potential you would gain if you trained by using passive training. In a game where the smallest advantages are used, I would say this is a pretty decent advantage.



The commissioner has stated many times that he believes you should mix up the teams and the skill level of the teams you play, think about how your players will play differently depending on the skill of the team they play because it dictates how they train during passive games.



When you look at it this way, you would be able to get balanced team like you get with using ST and DT. When you play defense teams your players would gain offence skills and when you play a team with a better offence than your own, you will gain defense. The same also applies for pitchers, if you play a bad pitcher you will gain offensive skills and if you play a good pitcher you will gain fielding skills. The key to smallball for a lot of people is trying to get the most balanced team skill wise, but trying to get a balanced team with passive training defeats the purpose of passive training. I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to get a balanced team with passive training if a balanced team is what you want, but if that’s what you want. Then shouldn’t you just use the Standard or Deluxe trainers? If you use passive training your aim should be to get players specialized in their position.



If you want a team that can win PL1 with the help of passive trainings specialized players then according to ‘Tims theory of Pro League Victory’ you should be able to do it. Make sure you read that SHOULD. There’s a lot of luck involved in smallball, a lot of tactics and no matter what you do, you will probably fail even if you do the right thing. Losing is what SmallBall is all about. The next part is ‘Tims Theory of Pro League Victory.’ Everyone should give this a go to experience all of smallball.

efrisbee
06-27-2007, 09:48 PM
hmm, thanks for your input everyone. i think im going to try a bit of personal testing. im going to give passive training a try while i'm gone and see what i think of my team when i get back. im in a couple of user leagues so a few games should get played. however, if anyone here is looking for a team to play, i would appreciate it if you challenged me if youre around my skill level.

my team is currently 4* soon to be 5*. id # 584091. i will turn passive training on friday afternoon and it will be on through monday, if there are any teams looking for a game this weekend + monday, please challenge me.

again thanks for everyones input, hopefully ill meet some of you on the field this weekend.