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View Full Version : Too Late to Find Pitcher?



yungcurtis
01-12-2009, 08:27 PM
My team is at 9* and I'm having some doubts about my man on the mound. Is it too late to find out my "true" pitchers? And if not how would I do this?

epiphanic
01-12-2009, 08:36 PM
It's never too late to "find" your "true" pitchers.

With a trained team, there are two ways to go about it.

1. The "traditional way" of maxing everyone simultaneously as if they were a brand new team. The drawback is that you neglect the other skills and they will suffer in games. If you're in the PLs, you may drop leagues or even out entirely (depending on where you are). If you're willing to pay that price, then you can use this method.

2. Keeping your current pitcher(s) and train one additional (or however many you see fit) player as a pitcher. When he's maxed you can compare. Cycle through the players as you eliminate potentials and train the next one. This will take considerably longer.

Rsandz
01-12-2009, 08:57 PM
Yes. What Epiphanic said.

You can either go ahead and max everybody in pitch and then compare your players. This will take a week or 2 tops, and you'll be back to normal training with your new, or your original, pitchers. The bad thing is that during this time, all of your players will lose other skills, and will start losing lots of games, and the progress you have made so far will slowly slip away. The other method is a little more complicated and will take longer, but your team will retain its other skills.

I recommend that you find 2 pitchers. If you only have 1, your pitcher will never get any bench time and extra TP. If you have 3-4 pitchers, there isn't much bench room for your non pitchers to get the extra TP. With 2 pitchers, 1 pitcher will get the extra TP, and it also leaves 2 extra bench spots open for any other players. If you rotate your pitchers often, you'll find that they will not only be great pitchers, they'll also be good hitters since they get more bench time than anyone else. So I'd say the most efficient way to do it is to take 4 guys, and max them all in pitch. Compare them. Throw out the worst two pitchers out of the four. Take two more guys, and max them out in pitch and also keep the other two pitchers that have already maxed, at max. Throw out the bottom two of those. Keep doing this until you have gone through all of your players. The two that are there in the end are your pitchers. Now this process will take a VERY LONG TIME. If your looking for a quick solution, this isn't the way to go. The advantage however, is that youre always training 8 of your players in something other than pitch. This keeps your team from slumping as you max EVERYONE in pitch.

If your looking for a quick solution, pick the first one. This will max everyone all at the same time, but in turn will cause your team to lose skill.

If your looking for a way to fix the problem and still retain skill, use the second one. But this is a long process that takes pacience.

For your team, since they are new and are in pl 7, I'd say if you started with the first process now, you could be done in 2 weeks, and move down to pl8 or 9. You wouldn't completely fall out.

If you started process 2 right now, you'd be done in a few months, and youd maintain your spot in 7 or keep rising in the pls.

In my opinion, I'd say to just do the first process, get it done quickly, go down a pl or 2, and then rise back up again in a couple weeks. But do what you think is better for you. Both have their advantages and drawbacks.

Jim
01-13-2009, 05:47 AM
I had this 1 pitcher team that is very competetive. He is a very good pitcher but is a slow runner and poor hitter. I had this other guy who was a fast runner, excellent hitter. but just couldn't retain catch and throw. I was going to rookie him but thought I would train him in pitch first. He sorted at #7 pitch but after about 7 full pies of pitch, he took over and has'nt looked back. It blows my mind that he is that good. Now my other pitcher has greatly improved in hit and run.

mlthmp
01-13-2009, 11:43 AM
What I do when I am trying to find my pitcher when im already in the PLs or at 8 or 9*.. is I pick 3 guys at a time to bench and use the extra TP for all 3 in pitching.

This does leave you without any backups to sub into your lineup, but you're able to train 3 at a time without affecting your team while doing so.

Roughnecks
01-13-2009, 01:08 PM
There is always a rebirth ticket. But like most other methods, there's the good, the bad, and the ugly. But if your not going to use one, then Mike's, and the other's ideas are right on.

The good: This is the most accurate way to finding your pitcher. With 3 at a time like Mike said, the amount of time to find him should be close to the same.

The bad: Bye, bye, PL's.

The ugly: The cost.

IMO.only

epiphanic
01-13-2009, 01:52 PM
The good: This is the most accurate way to finding your pitcher. With 3 at a time like Mike said, the amount of time to find him should be close to the same.

I disagree. A rebirth ticket doesn't change the players' genetics, just resets their skills. Even if he chooses to train and max everyone simultaneously, the result will be the same. Furthermore, chances are his players' other skills won't atrophy to the piont where they are zero which will give him a head start when he resumes normal training.

Roughnecks
01-13-2009, 02:18 PM
I disagree. A rebirth ticket doesn't change the players' genetics, just resets their skills. Even if he chooses to train and max everyone simultaneously, the result will be the same. Furthermore, chances are his players' other skills won't atrophy to the piont where they are zero which will give him a head start when he resumes normal training.Reseting their skills to 0 and starting from that point is an accurate way, Its just like finding your pitcher when you first open them. Which to me is the best way to find your pitcher. I didn't mention anything about genetics, not sure where you got that from my post, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.

epiphanic
01-13-2009, 03:28 PM
Unless you're concerned about how well players gain pitch skill early in their development (read: low stars), actually resetting their skills isn't necessary in my opinion. Ultimately what you're concerned with is a player's top pitch skill level and the skill loss/gain rates at that level.

I agree with you that "finding your pitcher" immediately is an accurate way. Where I disagree with you is that "finding your pitcher" at a later time (such as at a high star level) is any less accurate assuming you use the same process. I mentioned genetics because they are what determine the players' aptitudes with different skills. Applying a rebirth ticket isn't going to change that and therefore isn't going to change the result.

If someone is inclined to use a rebirth ticket for that purpose, they are free to do so. However, it is my belief that using a rebirth ticket for that purpose isn't necessary.

yungcurtis
01-13-2009, 04:27 PM
I think that I am just going to max everyone out now and deal w/ w/e consequences that it brings. I just feel the need to satisfy my curiousity and find out if I am going w/ my "true" pitcher.

yungcurtis
01-13-2009, 04:29 PM
There is always a rebirth ticket.

Hey man, that's alot of work to go through. All the way back to 1*.... nah im good.

Roughnecks
01-13-2009, 05:41 PM
nah im good.If you were good you would have found your pitcher when your team was a 1*. It was a suggestion. Take it as a suggestion only. No matter how you look at it, it's a lot of work.:frown2: Now your willing to "Deal with the consequences." Why don't you just say, "I don't want to do the work, so I'll just throw a dart and hope for the best." What kind of team you have reflects the work you put in them.

Yea, that way is a lot better than mine.:beaner:

It's great to be back!

Rsandz
01-13-2009, 06:14 PM
I don't think Curtis was trying to say that your method wasn't good Roughnecks. All the suggestions he has been given are good, and now he has to decide whats the best method for his team. He could have maybe used better word choice in his response to your suggestion, but thats no reason to say that he isn't a good trainer because he is having doubts about possibly not finding his pitcher correctly the first time.

Roughnecks
01-13-2009, 06:28 PM
I don't think Curtis was trying to say that your method wasn't good Roughnecks. All the suggestions he has been given are good, and now he has to decide whats the best method for his team. He could have maybe used better word choice in his response to your suggestion, but thats no reason to say that he isn't a good trainer because he is having doubts about possibly not finding his pitcher correctly the first time.I know. Sorry bud, keep getting the rig mixed up with the forums. :out: All right everybody back to work. :gnorsi:

yungcurtis
01-13-2009, 08:50 PM
If you were good you would have found your pitcher when your team was a 1*. It was a suggestion. Take it as a suggestion only. No matter how you look at it, it's a lot of work.:frown2: Now your willing to "Deal with the consequences." Why don't you just say, "I don't want to do the work, so I'll just throw a dart and hope for the best." What kind of team you have reflects the work you put in them.

Yea, that way is a lot better than mine.:beaner:

It's great to be back!

hey rough it is my fault i could have used better words, I apoligize.

DarkElf
01-14-2009, 12:35 AM
I disagree. A rebirth ticket doesn't change the players' genetics, just resets their skills. Even if he chooses to train and max everyone simultaneously, the result will be the same. Furthermore, chances are his players' other skills won't atrophy to the piont where they are zero which will give him a head start when he resumes normal training.

I'll go on record and say that Epi is absolutely right. A rebirth is a total waste of time and effort unless you simply enjoy starting a team from scratch.

There is NO reason to start from skill of zero to determine your pitcher because all the important information is determined when they are maxed. Why set them back to zero and get them back to max when you can just start getting them to max now? Makes no sense.

It's never too late to determine your best pitchers, and what's more, you'll be best served to just do it, even if it means setting your team back a bit. Do it once, do it right, and no short cuts!

yungcurtis
01-14-2009, 04:36 AM
Thanks DE I admire you and I always enjoy reading your posts.

Roughnecks
01-14-2009, 07:02 AM
I guess I will agree. A rebirth ticket will not work. You can not find your pitcher by useing a rebirth ticket. The record has been set straight. Don't know what I was thinking.

I could have swore that I said if you choose not to rebirth that the OTHER posts were right on. Go ahead, take a look at my first post. Not sure why everybody jumped on that bandwaggon, without paying attention to everything I said. Guess what, Wild Bill thought he was paying attention too.

I don't care WHO agree's with who, it IS accurate. I didn't mention anything about nessesity. I just felt I had to back myself up, since you all read into things that just arent there. I didn't even say it was the best way. I said it was 1 way, do you understand. If not PM me and I'll explain it.

Geese guy's, it was one way of many, whats the deal with jumping on that. You all don't like me or something.....well let me cry a river.

I wan't hard evidence that this won't work. If you don't have hard evidence, then don't say anything.

Really, I'm not mad at all, just dissapointed in the inncorrect acusations.

redbirds33
01-14-2009, 08:14 AM
Its ok RN. I don't think anybody cares that much. Rough day at the rig? Epi is known for coming down hard when he spots something that isn't correct. Don't sweat it.

Roughnecks
01-14-2009, 11:20 AM
Its ok RN. I don't think anybody cares that much. Rough day at the rig? Epi is known for coming down hard when he spots something that isn't correct. Don't sweat it.Yea, it's cool. I just believe epi disaggreed with something he didn't need to. It is correct. A rebith ticket is 1 way to find your pitcher. Who cares if it's the best way or not. I was just adding one more way to the list of ways to do this. I didn't degrade anything epi said, so why try making me look like a fool. It's OK redbird, it's all just a little healthy dissagrement is all. I'm not mad at anybody. This is how we find out whats right and wrong with training. I'm already looking back and laughing at it. And no, my time on the rig is fine, I flip the lever, it does what I want. Works out good.

yungcurtis
01-14-2009, 03:50 PM
Hey I've been training my team in pitching, trying to find out who my pitcher is and I didn't get to max but I found another pitcher and it was who I thought it was... The strangest thing is happening I'm winning games. I haven't trained in batting for about 5 days just throwing + pitching and my team is getting an enormous amount of hits. My pitcher now is Big Juicee and he is keeping the scores down. Today, just an hour ago I put him in and he's doing well. He also retains the most amount of pitch skill. Check out my team's page (606719) and look at today's games. I've been outhitting my opponents and playing good defense. The offensive production is a shock for me but is this normal, to excel in batting when training in just the opposite?

smallballheat
01-14-2009, 05:19 PM
It seems to happen to me a lot, I'll go a few days without training and when I start again I start with defense. Somehow my team wins some shootouts, but then when I train them in hitting they suddenly go in a slump :nonod:

paphillyman
01-14-2009, 05:50 PM
After finding pitchers for the number of teams that I have , and that is maxing out all players, it seems like the 2 pitchers will have these two things in common;
1. after being maxed out in pitch skill , he should be able to NOT pitch for 6 days , and then be able to max again in pitch on the seventh day.
2. As he is pitching everyday , he shouldn't get more that a +3 in pitch each day , +2 peferrable , +1 fantastic .
Pap

GodofAcid
01-18-2009, 03:52 PM
After finding pitchers for the number of teams that I have , and that is maxing out all players, it seems like the 2 pitchers will have these two things in common;
1. after being maxed out in pitch skill , he should be able to NOT pitch for 6 days , and then be able to max again in pitch on the seventh day.
2. As he is pitching everyday , he shouldn't get more that a +3 in pitch each day , +2 peferrable , +1 fantastic .
Pap

Thank you, numbers like these are very helpful, they give people a baseline of what to look for.

fishtremble
01-18-2009, 04:20 PM
Good stuff philly, that data is a great asset to anyone trying to find the proper pitchers for their team. I always look forward to reading anything you or DE are willing to give out.

Burninator
01-18-2009, 05:28 PM
After finding pitchers for the number of teams that I have , and that is maxing out all players, it seems like the 2 pitchers will have these two things in common;
1. after being maxed out in pitch skill , he should be able to NOT pitch for 6 days , and then be able to max again in pitch on the seventh day.
2. As he is pitching everyday , he shouldn't get more that a +3 in pitch each day , +2 peferrable , +1 fantastic .
Pap

Regarding your first point, is that with a full pie of TP or half a pie?

paphillyman
01-18-2009, 09:08 PM
Regarding your first point, is that with a full pie of TP or half a pie?


Burn , thats a full pie my man

yungcurtis
01-19-2009, 07:51 PM
Burn , thats a full pie my man

thanks pap i always gain a measure of insight from all your posts.

BP
01-20-2009, 07:23 PM
I do 6 days, but your pitcher shouldn't use a whole pie trying to get pitch skill(should be about 1/4 left if no pitching for 6 days) , just train in something else. but that's why these are all theories. Proven, to extent, theories are still theories.

I definitely agree that you have to find the correct 2 or 3 pitchers(your choice) or you will not make it big.

yungcurtis
01-21-2009, 09:13 PM
I definitely agree that you have to find the correct 2 or 3 pitchers(your choice) or you will not make it big.

I agree you definetly need more than 1 pitcher. I had to learn that the hard way, but it turns out that my team didn't suffer that much because I'm still winning games w/o training in batting.

As it turns out, I was using my #3 pitcher.

Chippy
01-23-2009, 08:18 AM
Yea, it's cool. I just believe epi disaggreed with something he didn't need to. It is correct. A rebith ticket is 1 way to find your pitcher. Who cares if it's the best way or not. I was just adding one more way to the list of ways to do this. I didn't degrade anything epi said, so why try making me look like a fool. It's OK redbird, it's all just a little healthy dissagrement is all. I'm not mad at anybody. This is how we find out whats right and wrong with training. I'm already looking back and laughing at it. And no, my time on the rig is fine, I flip the lever, it does what I want. Works out good.

No one at all was trying to make you look like a fool, you know. It's just that your suggestion of rebirthing as a tactic would've provided absolutely 0 benefit, in any way, shape, or form. That's it. That doesn't mean you're a fool, that doesn't mean I'm jumping on you. This is a discussion about finding pitchers, and you suggested rebirthing as possibly being a tactic to find a teams pitchers. Epi responded by saying that, no, rebirthing in and of itself does not find your pitchers at all, and rebirthing serves no purpose at all in helping to find your pitchers.

That's what the SmallBall forums are all about, man! Throwing ideas out there, discussing the ideas, etc.! If you think every single time someone disagrees/corrects you that they're also trying to make you look like a fool, you're waaaaay off track man.

Your suggestion had to be taken under a microscope and dissected because, at first glance, it DOES seem like rebirthing would help to find pitchers. And what if some other person, reading this thread, saw that as a suggestion, thought about it, and decided it'd be a good idea? The thing is, rebirthing isn't a "different" method of finding your pitchers. If it was, definitely, it should be considered as an option. But it's simply the exact same method as just training everyone in pitching now...except you also have to spend money and start over at 1*. But no one is saying this to jump on you, man. We're saying it because what is said on the forums undoubtedly influences those who post (and those who lurk) into doing things with their SmallBall teams. And rebirthing to find pitchers is not something that I believe anyone should be influenced to do.


Curtis: I'm glad this is working out for you! It's a relatively long and (somewhat) painful process, but rest assured (like everyone else says) it will undoubtedly be worth it for you in the end!

Gore
01-23-2009, 03:14 PM
My team is at 9* and I'm having some doubts about my man on the mound. Is it too late to find out my "true" pitchers? And if not how would I do this?

Plain and simple.. train the whole team. Bite the bullet. The true pitchers are those who gain the most pitch skill (learn the quickest) and RETAIN the pitch skill the best. Also very important is the speed in which your pitcher learns throwing skill. If you have a player whos great at pitching but horrible at throwing then to maintain his throwing at full potential (and 10* at pitching) you will need to waste too much pie to get him retouched everyday to keep him at maximum. Hence he wont be much good at the other skills. You want a guy who learns pitching and throwing I believe.

The only probluem is realizing who on your team has a good throwing potential. If your an attentive trainer you should have a very good idea. If its impossible to say then Im sorry I don't know. Just look at whos the best in pitching after a full training. I wouldn't rebirth to find a pitcher.