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NRaider
01-11-2009, 01:31 AM
What is the Distance for someone Maxed in throw? Need to know if my guys are getting anywhere close.

DarkElf
01-11-2009, 02:50 AM
A player who is at max in throw skill will range between 161-187 in DT.

GodofAcid
01-11-2009, 06:18 AM
Believe 188 is the most I've seen to this point, 170-175 average.

NRaider
01-11-2009, 01:05 PM
alright thanks. I just wasnt sure and i havent played in quite sometime.

willybang
01-11-2009, 01:44 PM
I have seen the occasional 190-191 feet (*edited) but its only the odd pitch...

I am happy to take 180 to 188 feet (*Edited) as near maxed for the best ones.
But as Darkelf stated.. its can be in the low 160's if thats their limit..
Depends on the player...

LilChris2434
01-11-2009, 01:54 PM
I have seen the occasional 190-191 mph but its only the odd pitch...

I am happy to take 180 to 188mpH as near maxed for the best ones.
But as Darkelf stated.. its can be in the low 160's if thats their limit..
Depends on the player...

I though max throw was in feet, not Mph.:confused:

willybang
01-11-2009, 02:00 PM
I though max throw was in feet, not Mph.:confused:

Ooops LOL
Sorry I edited my post above, sorry for any confusion!

NRaider
01-11-2009, 02:08 PM
that would be crazy 191 mph :D GL making contact lol. but thanks everyone.

DarkElf
01-12-2009, 01:15 AM
Okay, guys, when well training in throw skill, a player's hi-low range is 27 feet. When a player is AT MAX (not above, not below, but dead on AT standard max), they will throw between 161 and 187. In other words, if you watch them long enough in the throwing pen, their shortest throw will be 161 and their longest throw will be 187.

And this is for ALL players. It's not like if one player is maxed in throw skill and his max throw distance is 175 feet but another guy at max throw skill can throw a ball 187. They ALL throw 161-187. The average might be different, but the range is the same.

3 teams, 36 players, NO deviations from this. I won't believe you if you say your team is different unless I personally A.T. them. :smile5:

epiphanic
01-12-2009, 01:49 AM
The average might be different, but the range is the same.

Question: Do the players, then, sort by average?

mlthmp
01-12-2009, 09:31 AM
I've seen as high as 191 and 192 before but its been rare. Usually my guys throw around 172 - 176 when maxed.

Then again, I also use a higher FPS than normal.

DarkElf
01-14-2009, 12:20 AM
Question: Do the players, then, sort by average?

No, they sort by amount of throw skill they have, just like all the other skills.

But I think some players just throw better than others, despite having the same amount of skill.

If you spend 10 minute watching and recording throw distances for players that have the same amount of throw skill, I think it becomes apparent that some players just throw better than others. I haven't proved this yet (but I should), but if my unproven (and lazy) observation ends up being correct, then maybe this becomes very important for determining your best throwers in an actual game?

DarkElf
01-14-2009, 12:22 AM
I've seen as high as 191 and 192 before but its been rare. Usually my guys throw around 172 - 176 when maxed.

Then again, I also use a higher FPS than normal.

IMO, that's only accomplished by 1) using a throw QT or 2) minimizing with an increased FPS.

tkarocker
01-14-2009, 12:30 AM
So you can increase their max by using a QT?

DarkElf
01-14-2009, 12:43 AM
So you can increase their max by using a QT?

No, you can EXCEED their standard max using a QT. Max is max and never changes. I know, sounds crazy :out: but yes, you can exceed max in any skill.

The question is, why would you want to waste the TP to do so?

Beaner
01-14-2009, 11:49 AM
No, you can EXCEED their standard max using a QT. Max is max and never changes. I know, sounds crazy :out: but yes, you can exceed max in any skill.


That's another thing commish said a long time ago that has always stuck with me, and that's that players do not have a "hard ceiling". I guess that's why you can get your pitcher throwing over their normal max by high FPS minimizing. I still have not found any evidence at all that this translates into any extra wins though.

I never knew that about throw skill. Is throw the only skill that pretty much all players have about the same normal max level on? I can see how they could on certain skills, as although it might be the same, skill loss varies for each player which could make it appear they do not have the same max. (hope that makes sense lol)

I know run skill does not apply. I very often have all or most of my team maxed at the same time, and they do not all run the same speed.

mlthmp
01-14-2009, 01:01 PM
No, you can EXCEED their standard max using a QT.


I thought that using a QT when near maxed only took them to max, in essence wasting the majority of their TP. I know when pitching (for example, a new team) I have had some players pitching around 108 and 107 and after using a Pitch QT on those same players they were throwing within the same range.

I believe personally that the only was to exceed a player's maximum skill level is by using FPS while minimizing during training.

DarkElf
01-14-2009, 01:26 PM
It's my strong belief that for every skill, all players have the exact same "normal" max. We're not talking about exceeding it with QTs or FPS, just straight training. Over the years, I've probably written a few hundred pages of notes for what players gain each cycle. Not just the 3 teams I've owned, but the one's I've ATed for people too. I've never seen any variation in this, with one exception that I've noted a few times. Every once in awhile, a player at max might gain one cycle of skill that they usually can't, but it doesn't happen consistently, and really, for all intents and purposes, it's close enough to say that everyone has the same max.

Now, just because all players are at the same max skill level doesn't necessarily mean they perform the same on the training field, particularly in the skills where there is a clear range of measurements, like throwing. Their high and low will be the same for all players, but I'm not sure their average will end up the same. Use throwing as an example. You'd have to record the distance of every throw, but sit there long enough to collect enough data to make it statistically significant. I've never done that for throwing, but I have made a few feeble attempts to do it for pitching. I just didn't collect enough data to draw any meaningful conclusions.

You say your guys run at different speeds when maxed. Could be, but I've not seen that. If I get every player maxed and put them all on the track so that they all run in a herd, then minimize for awhile, they're still running in the herd. No one has pulled away or fallen back. So I don't know, I guess I'd be surprised to find out that it didn't work this way for all teams.

DarkElf
01-14-2009, 01:36 PM
I thought that using a QT when near maxed only took them to max, in essence wasting the majority of their TP. I know when pitching (for example, a new team) I have had some players pitching around 108 and 107 and after using a Pitch QT on those same players they were throwing within the same range.

I believe personally that the only was to exceed a player's maximum skill level is by using FPS while minimizing during training.

I proved it several years ago with very specific evidence. Now granted, I haven't used a QT in years, so maybe it's been changed, but I don't think so. I should try it again on my test team to see for sure.

Using FPS is tricky because if you have a player who is, say, at (max - 1) in pitching and you minimize, it's very possible that he'll burn the entire pie and only gain 1 point in pitch skill, effectively wasting his TP. This is why I don't advise people to mess with FPS and minimize because unless you really understand how it works and what you're doing, you can mess things up in a hurry.

I mention FPS here because I imagine the same could happen with a QT? Dunno.

mlthmp
01-14-2009, 01:39 PM
Who knows.. I don't claim to understand everything about the game and skill gain / loss.

Odds are you're right.. I've just noticed what I've seen from my own personal experience. Personally.. I would tend to think you are more correct than I am.. there's no question to me which of us knows more about the game :P lol

bobjones83
01-14-2009, 03:32 PM
Mike is a NOOB! :busted: lol

Rsandz
01-15-2009, 09:20 PM
Using FPS is tricky because if you have a player who is, say, at (max - 1) in pitching and you minimize, it's very possible that he'll burn the entire pie and only gain 1 point in pitch skill, effectively wasting his TP. This is why I don't advise people to mess with FPS and minimize because unless you really understand how it works and what you're doing, you can mess things up in a hurry.

I've been putting FPS on 333 for a while. Not to get any extra gains, but just to speed up training. Can FPS waste TP at any setting above the normal 33, or am i safe at 333. I've heard that 333 is good to use for anything. And 99999 can be used for running. Is this true, or can TP be wasted at 333?

Gore
01-23-2009, 03:39 PM
what is the distance for someone maxed in throw? Need to know if my guys are getting anywhere close.

186

BP
01-23-2009, 04:14 PM
I've been putting FPS on 333 for a whie. Not to get any extra gains, but just to speed up training. Can FPS waste TP at any setting above the normal 33, or am i safe at 333. I've heard that 333 is good to use for anything. And 99999 can be used for running. Is this true, or can TP be wasted at 333?

I run DT on 333 also. I don't see any changes than when I used to train on 33, besides the speed pick up. I'm pretty sure it's safe there, but others have said to put it back to 133.

Oh, and I am a firm believer that everyone's max skill will be the same skill rating, yet some players can exceed the maximum by 1-5 skill points, but wastes a lot of TP to do so, which in my opinion, is not helpful in any skill. I have had the same readings as Darkelf when he says 161-187, and that when all players are maxed in run, they will run the same speed.

Beaner
01-23-2009, 06:05 PM
My FPS stays at 2929. :beaner: