PDA

View Full Version : finding pitcher



Smallballer
12-23-2008, 02:47 PM
i have been finding my pitchers by training them only in pitching on DT, but they will get pass gains, is this bad?

jwizz
12-23-2008, 02:53 PM
not really, just max everyone in Pitch then the top of the list should be the pitcher, and if you want 2 pitchers the top 2

GodofAcid
12-23-2008, 08:26 PM
It's not bad, in fact it can't be avoided.

DarkElf
12-25-2008, 04:51 PM
not really, just max everyone in Pitch then the top of the list should be the pitcher, and if you want 2 pitchers the top 2

Huh?

Top of WHAT list?

If you mean top of the pitch list, this makes no sense since Player #1 will sort first when everyone has reached max.

If you mean top of the throw list, then it's completely irrelevant.

Either way, this isn't very good advice. You're completely ignoring _all_ the factors that make for a good pitcher in SmallBall.

SmallBaller, GOA is right, throw gains can't be avoiding when pitch training (unless you only use pitch QTs), but the tiny throw gains you're seeing during pitch skill training are irrelevant.

Smallballer
12-25-2008, 06:14 PM
So after everyone is maxed everyone should be in order 1-12 right?

DarkElf
12-25-2008, 06:43 PM
So after everyone is maxed everyone should be in order 1-12 right?

Well, yes, sorta...

I don't know about ST, but in DT, there's a slight exception where MAYBE a player or two will sort higher because they've gained an additional point of pitch skill above max.

But generally, yes, they'll sort in order.

GodofAcid
12-25-2008, 07:43 PM
Dark knows better than me but I don't put much stock in where they sort right after training, I pay attention to where they sort 2 days after. I found a consistent player who always sorts to the top after 2 days and I'm set on making him my pitcher. He'll have more TP to train in other areas and in the long run that makes for a better team.

DarkElf
12-25-2008, 11:53 PM
Dark knows better than me but I don't put much stock in where they sort right after training,

You should. Gotta know where everyone is starting after training to know their relative skill loss after 2 days...



I pay attention to where they sort 2 days after. I found a consistent player who always sorts to the top after 2 days and I'm set on making him my pitcher.

That's only half the picture.



He'll have more TP to train in other areas and in the long run that makes for a better team.

Not necessarily. What if, despite needing fewer skill points to max in pitch skill (because he sorts #1 after 2 days of rest), it takes him an entire pie to max out? Would you still say he's your best pitcher? I wouldn't...

Skill retention is a very important factor, for sure. But to me, skill gain efficiency is even more important.

Roughnecks
12-26-2008, 01:06 PM
Here's what I found::idea:

Starting with a brand new team I first trained everyone in throw w/a full pie.
Results:
Player # 10 had a gain of 54.01
#7-53(gain)
#3-49
#2-48
#6-46
#11-46
#4-38
#9-37
#12-31
#5-29
#1-24
#8-22
So, as you can see there is quite a difference from a 22 gain to a 54.01 gain. This is the skill range which you want to look for. For each skill.

I also did the same thing with pitching and running skill. The players will gain different amounts with a full pie of training. They will also loss that skill at a different pace. I took the results and looked to see who was best suited for a pitcher. Now I will look to see who holds the skills the best. Finding your pitcher is important and there are many different ways to do this. The best way for you may not be the best way for everyone. Its all a matter of opinion. My opinion: the best trainers keep the magic to themselves. Kinda like some won't train you to do their job, because they don't want you to get their job.

Razorback
12-26-2008, 06:17 PM
I have a question, do you automatically rule out the guys who dont at least get 40 pitch skill the first time you train them. In my first pitch report i had two guys gain over 53 in pitch and i have never seent that before with all the teams i've trained before.

Smallballer
12-26-2008, 06:39 PM
Im getting close to maxing out i think, some guys it is taking like 20 minutes to get done and its taking about 2hours to train everyone, does this sound right?

Razorback
12-27-2008, 01:17 PM
You will know when they are maxed if they continually get .001 in pitch skill.

GodofAcid
12-27-2008, 06:35 PM
It should take nearly 2 hours, yes, because you'll continuously get +1 for each, no more than that. About the time their pitch speed breaks 100 mph you'll be getting very close to max.

GCool
12-28-2008, 12:20 PM
How do you account for the difference in training potential in your bench players and starting players when you're maxing everyone? Do you train just half a pie in the section you're focusing on with your bench players and then the full starters' training potential every 24 hours, or would you skip a day of training with the starters and train the bench players in something that doesn't involve the subject your focusing on?

Hmmm ... haha

GodofAcid
12-28-2008, 10:06 PM
I train my bench guys in run on those off days

DarkElf
12-29-2008, 09:36 AM
How do you account for the difference in training potential in your bench players and starting players when you're maxing everyone? Do you train just half a pie in the section you're focusing on with your bench players and then the full starters' training potential every 24 hours, or would you skip a day of training with the starters and train the bench players in something that doesn't involve the subject your focusing on?


It doesn't really matter. If you've opted to max all 12 players, some will require more pie to keep up, so they should go to the bench. Of course, that should tell you something about those players.

If they are all already at max, again, it doesn't matter. You're measuring their pitch skill gain efficiency and skill loss, and doing this doesn't require that everyone is on the same training schedule, getting the same amount of pie.

Remember, you can measure this for one player at a time if you feel like it.

stubs
12-29-2008, 05:54 PM
Everyone has made very valid points as to ways of finding your pitcher. Listen to DarkElf...unless Commish comes on and says differently.

The question was...

i have been finding my pitchers by training them only in pitching on DT, but they will get pass gains, is this bad?
The answer is...It's not bad, it's unavoidable.

redbirds33
01-01-2009, 01:15 PM
I believe the throw gains are somewhat avoidable. Watch your pitcher carefully.

I'm assuming that training in throw on the pitch mound is not an efficient use of TP, so when pitch skill is maxed, take him off the mound. Knowing when he is maxed in pitch skill is tricky, but you could waste a lot of TP on just a little bit of throw if you leave him there too long.

As far as picking up throw gains while he is still gaining in pitch, I agree that's unavoidable.

DarkElf
01-01-2009, 03:22 PM
I'm assuming that training in throw on the pitch mound is not an efficient use of TP,
I still don't think it matters. I can't remember ever seeing one of my pitchers gained +1 in throw skill during a cycle without ALSO gaining +1 in pitch skill. So, it's not like pie is getting wasted when the guy gains +1 in throw.

Speaking of throw gains, why did Commish program DT to say PASS instead of THROW? There's no passing in baseball! Football, basketball, hockey, volleyball, soccer, yes, but in baseball, you throw the ball. The only time a ball is passed in baseball, it's by the catcher and even then, it doesn't involve throwing the ball. :biggrin:

redbirds33
01-01-2009, 04:01 PM
I could've sworn I've seen a pitcher gain just throw during a cycle, but I trust you DE. I'll keep an eye on it.

DarkElf
01-01-2009, 04:52 PM
I could've sworn I've seen a pitcher gain just throw during a cycle, but I trust you DE. I'll keep an eye on it.

Remember, I said one of MY pitchers. But it's less likely to happen with my pitchers because they are extremely efficient at gaining pitch skill. But I don't recall seeing it even when I was retraining my testing-only team, though admittedly, I wasn't specifically looking for it. I trained that team today on pitch skill and each of the four pitchers only gained +1 throw skill point, and every time, it was accompanied by a pitch skill point. It would be interesting to know if one of your pitchers gains throw and not pitch in any particular cycle (prior to being maxed in pitch skill).

Hmm, but even if it does happen, do you think that would have been at the expense of a point of pitch skill gain? IMO, I don't think so, but I can't think of a way to find out for sure.

:idea:

Actually, wait, yes I can! It'll take a few weeks of testing though...

:jon2s:

stubs
01-01-2009, 06:02 PM
I have seen +1 pass +.01 pitch while training on the pitching mound in DT. Sometimes it is followed by +1 pitch in the next cycle during that training session, sometimes it isn't.

DarkElf
01-01-2009, 06:14 PM
I have seen +1 pass +.01 pitch while training on the pitching mound in DT. Sometimes it is followed by +1 pitch in the next cycle during that training session, sometimes it isn't.

:eek6:

Which means your non-maxed pitcher might go TWO cycles without a +1 PITCH?

If that's the case, his efficiency sucks and you need a new guy!

stubs
01-01-2009, 07:33 PM
Thank you! I will.

PawneeCityRoyals
07-05-2009, 04:49 PM
i have a question.... Whats the highest pitch mph u can throw?? jus wondering cuz ive got 2 pitchers throwin 110+ alot but i wanna know when to stop trainin em real hard wit pitchin and get some batting and running in.. so wats max pitch mph?

BP
07-05-2009, 08:53 PM
right around 110-112.